I think Square Enix is doomed (A Rant)

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Pikang, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. Pikang

    Pikang Resident furry and fursuiter

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    I'll do what I can to be brief about this, but I have a lot to say, so this rant may not be brief at all.

    I'll start with the flat-out statement: I am starting to lose a TON of faith in Square Enix for their choices in making new games, localizing Japan-only games, and just being a company in general.

    "But why?" you might ask! "They're doing great things, like making Kingdom Hearts 3 and an HD version of Final Fantasy 7-"

    Stop. My first point is that I don't wanna hear about FF7 or its remake. In fact, I'll go ahead and speak my mind that I hope that remake of the game flops horribly. And here's why: IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO REMAKE THAT PARTICULAR ONE. Much to many FF7 fanboys/fangirls dismay, I highly dislike FF7 and its cast and setting. I do own it, but I have never brought myself to play it, mainly because:
    • Cloud is a boring PoS character that tries way too hard to be edgy. Spiky hair? Check. Oversized Buster Sword? Check. Annoying personality that has no character development from what I understand? Check and check. Sounds like we've got the makings of someone's bad DA OC! And yet the Final Fantasy fandom seems to practically WORSHIP Cloud!
    • Sephiroth is a bad villain too, brooding over the stupidest things I can think of in relation to the game. Even Zidane from FF9 (a far superior game, IMO) thinks he's a bad idea in Dissidia!
    • The technological setting of FF7 is butt-ugly and not hugely imaginative to me. And yes, I know there's hardware limitations to consider, but if you can make other non-FF games look better on the same console, IMO, you're doing it wrong.
    • Finally, the game as an HD remake is going to take a lot of time, simply because it's not being simply revamped graphically. You have a whole new engine to work with, and new graphics, new character models, new music, new scripting...this is not a remake. It's more like a reboot, if you ask me, and while I'd be fine with that normally, I still point back to my thoughts on Cloud being a boring character, and one I do not want to play as.
    Now, if the remake DOES succeed, that's great! I can get behind a successful game, even if I hate the original and the remake equally, and I'm sure the fans of the game will enjoy it, which I don't mind. But this isn't a rant thread about FF7, it's about Square Enix.

    My second point ties in directly with my first: they are pushing Final Fantasy way too much. Not much more to say, other than other brilliant games like Bravely Default occasionally shining through the thick fog of FF games. We are on Final Fantasy...what, coming up on 15? And here on my much-preferred Dragon Quest series, we who speak English are still stuck on 9 for a main-series game.

    Speaking of Dragon Quest, my third and final point is that Square is neglecting its other nest egg horribly. We recently got the brilliant Dynasty Warriors game mixed with Dragon Quest, known as Dragon Quest Heroes - The World Tree's Woe and the Blight Below. And from what I have heard and seen it is FANTASTIC. But, wait! Do you hear that? That's the sound of at least SEVEN OTHER DRAGON QUEST GAMES THAT WERE IGNORED FOR ENGLISH LOCALIZATION. We have:
    1. Terry's Wonderland 3DS, a 3DS version of the game I am trying to LP here on OrangeIslands.
    2. The sequel game(s), which were "version-based" games like Pokemon Red and Blue in their original game. I will count them as two entities because of that, even though I remember hearing that both games are lumped into one cartridge.
    3. See above.
    4. Dragon Quest 7's 3DS remake, which came out originally on PS1 (I have it and love it, but it's clunky as hell, I heard we MIGHT get this one, but no promises...)
    5. Dragon Quest 10, which no one outside of Japan EVER got, and probably never will
    6. Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 2 Professional (the reason the original version of Joker 2, which is all we English gamers got, did so poorly - what WE got was essentially a worse game than the full experience, which only Japan got! And since the regular DS's life is over, we won't ever get this one no matter what!
    7. POTENTIALLY the up and coming Dragon Quest 11, which may come out to America and Europe, but I heard they're crowdfunding to garner interest in it coming west. WTF? That's not how you gauge interest, especially since DQH is doing great currently!
    So yeah, there's AT LEAST seven DQ games that are being ignored in favor of Squares Final Fantasy fetish. I know of a few more spinoff games (Rocket Slime 3DS, a mobile game from the Monsters subseries [which I got by switching regions on my iPhone], and the GBA Dragon Quest Monsters 3 that I have played a translated version of on emulator), but I didn't mention those because they're done and gone or just not popular enough.

    Please, tell me, someone out there, that at least one point is valid...I am in a bad mood and wanted to take a potshot at Square, because I sure don't see any of the Dragon Quest games we never got as a fair thing...

    Hey, at least they're not Konami, I guess. Or *shudders* Capcom...
     
  2. Haas

    Haas The Master of the Night Administrator

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    I mean, I completely understand your argument, the only problem is that Square Enix has to look at things in terms of a company. Unfortunately that mean that they are driven by money (whether or not you agree with that is up to you, but that's overall how every video company is going right now, with Nintendo trying to shift as far away from that as possible, but still following that logic). They are looking at the games that the majority of people will buy and make money from. On the subject of Dragon Quest, however, you may have overlooked the fact that Dragon Quest X and XI are being developed for the Nintendo NX, which may imply that is a launch title for the NX, which is why it would make sense that they haven't released it in the rest of the world yet. It would be a good partnership deal with Nintendo and Square Enix for the combined hype for DQX and the NX to help each sell when released.

    The other thing to note is that Kingdom Hearts is an exhausting project. Like, the amount of effort to make those games is probably a big deal at SE. Because of the fact that the KH games usually are more hype than the DQ games, that means that, as a company, it makes more sense for them to put all of the resources they have into the KH series. Same thing goes with the Final Fantasy game, which are known for their detailed designs now. You are also saying that FF7 shouldn't be remade because you don't like it, but if you watched the reveal trailer for that thing live, it was insane the amount of people that want that one remade. So, although there are some who don't want that one remade, the majority does and therefore, Square feels safest remaking that and putting assets there because they are aware of the success the game will have out of the gates.

    Now, I don't necessarily agree with everything above, but you definitely have to think about it from a company's aspect.
     
  3. Chaos Shadow

    Chaos Shadow Simmered in awesome sauce

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    Guy, listen.

    Dragon Quest is huge in Japan but much more of a niche audience here. I personally loved Dragon Warrior Monsters and I'd love to see the remake jump over here, but the fact of the matter is that it's not a huge seller. It is not the same as Final Fantasy. It is oftentimes not worth the cost of localization, especially to bring over the spinoffs. It takes a ton of time and money to do a good localization job, and if they don't think it's going to be worth the investment -- and it oftentimes is not -- they won't bother.

    Speaking of cost, this is why so much focus goes to Final Fantasy. It makes money. It makes ludicrous, ridiculous, possibly unwarranted amounts of money. FF7 Remake is basically a license to print money. I want you to realize: you may not like FF7*, but FF7 is something people have been wanting forever. When FF12 came out, the first person to purchase the game in Japan got to go up and shake the hand of the producer. The thing he said?

    "Thank you please make Final Fantasy 7 for the PS3."

    He went up and bought installment 12, and the first words out of his mouth were a plea for a new version of 7. It might not be to your personal tastes, but it is something people have been wanting for a long, long time and not acknowledging this demand would be a terrible idea, especially for a company that was taking massive financial losses only a few years ago. They're looking for stability and sure bets. You may not like it, but if they take risks the entire company could be strangled by limited finances, and then you'll definitely never get a localized Dragon Quest again.


    * I'm guessing, from your bullet points, that you haven't actually played FF7, or else didn't get far into it at all, because every one of your bullet points about the characters is entirely wrong in context of the game itself. Cloud is not 'emo and edgy'; Sephiroth is not 'brooding'. Both of these interpretations originated from Kingdom Hearts, where the original FF7 representative was supposed to be Vincent, a hidden character who actually was the emo, brooding, edgy one. It was changed to Cloud later in development because Cloud had a much greater visibility, but Vincent's character design and demeanor are still all over Cloud.

    Cloud is actually fairly lighthearted and goofy ("Let's mosey!") and spends a fair bit of early game poking fun at Barret, and the late game becoming the badass everybody thought he was (it gets complicated, and it's filled with character development).

    Sephiroth has one instance of being 'brooding' during a flashback, but by and large he's actually a very enigmatic, creepy character who is definitely not entirely human in construction or motivation; Sephiroth himself arguably doesn't appear in the game at all except in flashback and at the end; the entity you're chasing throughout is actually the cosmic horrorterror Jenova, who assumed Sephiroth's form as part of a plan to unify itself and eat the world.

    FF7 is actually a much better game than I used to give it credit for; not one of my favorite Final Fantasies, but still a pretty good story that's hindered by a shoddy localization ("This guy are sick") and absolutely mangled by a raving fandom that came after it. Hate what the fandom did to the game, but unless you've actually played it and know what you're talking about, don't blame FF7. It caught a lot of people's imagination and paved the way for RPGs to really get a foothold in the West.

    ** PPS: Cloud's design is an early entry to the 'spiky hair, giant weapon' school of RPG hero design. He wasn't catching a bandwagon, he was starting it. Getting angry about Cloud being 'just another bad DA OC' is stupid because he is the reason those DA OCs exist.
     
  4. Pikang

    Pikang Resident furry and fursuiter

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    I...I will admit I never bothered to play FF7. I have a friend who really does not like 7 and thinks it has not aged well, and we both think Final Fantasy 9 deserves an HD remake more than 7 does...but yeah, my thoughts are influenced by his.
     
  5. Kitsune_XIII

    Kitsune_XIII Composer Ampereon

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    Everything CS said. Literally everything.

    Plus.
    Wanna know why 9 isn't getting a remake despite being a far superior game? It is Hironobu Sakaguchi's (The producer's) favorite. It was Nobuo Uematsu's favorite to produce the music for. Clearly if the people behind it prefer it it should get the remake, right?
    Wrong. Because 9 didn't sell. It's a wonderful game. But you know what? It didn't sell. It didn't sell then, and unfortunately it probably wouldn't sell now.
    7HD is going to print money for Squeenix. And seriously- with anything 6 and later, don't judge the game or characters until after you've played it. As for Cloud's "Lack of development", if you actually look at all of the shit that that poor man has been through, his behavior in AC/ACC and Dirge makes a shitton of sense. The dude's got some serious mental issues, including depression (that's being amplified by depression being a symptom of Geostigma), PTSD, and... oh, right, that Geostigma thing? Take a malignant tumor. Now that tumor will gradually liquefy everything under your skin, in sudden painful surges, until the black goop that is your liquefied organs erupts from every orifice. He's got that. There is no cure. He is dying. He is terrified of getting close to people because of shit that happened and was revealed in 7 (not just Aerith's death).

    "POTENTIALLY the up and coming Dragon Quest 11, which may come out to America and Europe, but I heard they're crowdfunding to garner interest in it coming west. WTF? That's not how you gauge interest, especially since DQH is doing great currently!"
    As for this... uh... actually... that IS a way for a company to guage interest in something. It tells them if people will actually pay for the thing. If them putting the time, effort, and money into it will actually pay off.
     
  6. Junpaku

    Junpaku Newbie

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    Before anyone reads this, WARNING. SPOILERS

    Also Pikang I understand you're entitled to your opinions and this isn't meant to be mad at your or anything. I'm just a little shocked you can knock on a game you've never actually played and really know nothing about...

    I mean I've never played Dragon Quest, so while I can say I've never really been interested in the idea of the game. I know nothing about it and if someone put it in front of me or I watched a few videos and maybe liked it, I might have been willing to give it a bit of a try.
    I wasn't interested when I few saw it because it looked like they took Dragon ball Z characters and tossed them in a game and I was like "eh" at first. But again I know nothing of the game so I can't say if it's a good game or not. All I can say is I'm not interested.



    Ok. For one, you know nothing about the game but you sit here and knock it like you've played it. You have not played it, you have no right to knock it. I was very unsure about playing the game my self, I had seen advent children and wasn't sure about cloud at all, he just seemed like a dull moodless ass hole to me. Then I played Crisis Core and I realized WHY he was like that. I realized how interesting the world COULD be. So I played the game, and I wish I had sooner. (once I got past the first few pain staking hours....)


    You want to know why all DA characters are like that? I'll tell you why. Because All DA characters are based off all the coolest characters you find through out video games, anime, and TV shows that any person has every seen. This is why they suck. They are snips taken from other characters and given a brooding personality that the person knows nothing about, has no REASON for, and just does because "drama!"

    His personality changes through out the game are very accurate based on the backstory he was given and square was very indepth in researching the causes and mental ailments that would afflict someone in his circumstances. He has HUGE character development going from a insecure sarcastic ass who cares about little more than money and his own well being. To a Character who is caring, brave, loyal, reliable, thoughtful and most of all, confident in him self and his abilities.

    His personality reverts in Advent children because everyone around him is dying. He saved the world for not, and plus everyone thinks the planet is causing what is killing him, his family, his friends, even the people he fought so hard to save. He has a voice of some crazy man in his head, telling him to give up he is useless he can't save anyone, everyone he ever loves has ended up dead or dying. And he has a very pushy, bossy, and self centered girl friend telling him to get over him self... WHEN HE IS DYING.


    Sephiroth brooding over stupid things?

    This is a man who had been raised as a weapon, without regard to his mental health, his closest and only friends were brought there forcefully and trained with him. He spent years, killing, slaying, being raised on a pedestal as a hero to the whole world. That went to his head. Then his best friend got jealous, they get into a fight, and he hurts him so bad that said friend never heals. Said friend, his only friend he has ever known who hasn't treated him like either a god or a monster of some kind.

    Said friend abandon him, forces his other friend to leave and abandon him as well. He's forced to fight them, for years, with plans to KILL them. Has to kill copied versions of them for years. He is forced to fight them against his will and still portrayed as a hero for doing so. He sees the whole world worshiping him for fighting against them, hating his friends the only people who have ever shown love to him.

    When they finally are taken off the case for just a moment break, when he FINALLY thinks he can think about something else, put his mind to helping people for once instead of killing his friends. He finds out his mother (Jenova) is being held captive by Hojo, the man who has poked and prodded and treated him like some creature to be observed and marveled at. He finds out that they have been making creatures out of her, his mother, mean while this whole time his friends have been telling him that he, and they, are nothing more the beasts and monsters not meant for this world.... and as he looks at the abomination laying at his feet, that he is related to, he realized they were right.

    He looked up research, he looks at every file on his so call "creation" how his mother is this race that ShinRa speaks of like it's a god, like it's a heaven sent. He finds out that Jenova's DNA is what made him who he is, made him the fighting machine. That ShinRa is using him, abusing him, and would be POWERLESS without him. He is filled with, rage, disgust, humiliation. And he snaps.

    He isn't brooding, he is FUCKING bat shit CRAZY. He thinks he is a god, because he was raised and treated like one his whole life but he knows he isn't human. He knows that humans think of him as some tool as some monster and here he stands with the choice.

    Kill, or be used.

    That isn't brooding, that's Wrath, that's hate. That's the wish to watch everything burn to ash in your hands and LAUGH about how pathetic the world you once fought for truly is. How disgusting and twisting this race who once called you Hero, and now calls you beast, is.


    You have to keep in mind that this game was made back in 1997, it is widely steam punk based and back then it had only been 20 years since the first nuclear power plant was made. For the time with was made it was very imaginative. This game was one of the first games to try and bring a fantasy JRPG into a futuristic setting and actually managed to pull it off. Filling his world with mad scientists and a power hungry company that rules the world. There was also a HUGE deal with a economic crisis back then that was many companies portrayed as beasts and monsters and wisely they played on that.
    You haven't played the game, you haven't seen the huge detail they've put into the steam punk themed world of darkness and dread. Haven't watches as the whole world crumbles down into a heap of despair and chaos.

    You also have to keep in mind that the ps1 had only released 3 years before this, meaning they didn't have a full grasp on how extensively they could bend and break this system to their will. All the newer games, games made in the first 4 or so years of a systems release, Never capture the systems true potential.

    Yes the game will take time, but they have been pushed and pressured into making a remake for YEARS by Final fantasy fans. Final fantasy is one of their strongest running franchises and even saved them from being bankrupt. The series if balled FINAL fantasy because they thought when they made it, it would be their last game ever. But it was SO popular is saved the company. And you're right, they aren't just remaking the game. They are retconning it. Not REBOOT, there is a difference. Reboot means they are taking the most important plot points and scratching the rest, in this they are taking the exact same game, adding the parts that were missing plot wise from the other games. Like Hojo not dying right away, or Vincent being a non optional character.
    As for playing as Cloud, he isn't the only character in the series, and plenty of attention is given to other characters and their back stories.

    After asking for this game for SO long, after wishing for a remake for SO long of this game. I can say I'm honestly offended you would want anything by this game company, who makes games you enjoy, to flop.

    Ok lets do the math here.
    Final fantasy series has sold over 80 billion unites total since the first one was made and that's as of 2008.
    Dragon Quest has sold about 57 billion unites total as of this year.

    Now Final Fantasy is a Square enix only made video game. They own all the rights, don't share profits, nothing. It is theres that is it.

    Dragon Quest is developed by a group of people from the following companies.
    ArtePiazza, Spike Chunsoft,Heartbeat, Level-5, Square Enix

    This means they not only have to wait for these people to agree to make one, wait for them all to choose members for the team, wait for them to agree on shared profits, wait for lawers to write up new agreements and for the papers to be signed to go ahead and make the game.... EVERY time a game is needed.
    Then you got all these people having to agree on what they want to DO with the game in the first place.

    So Final Fantasy, which has more sales, they don't share profits, they don't have to do as much paper work for or hire as many layers, or wait for aproval processes.... Much more likely to be published FASTER than DQ.


    There is a key word there, YOUR much preferred. And i point back up to my previous reasons as to why this might be.

    I will agree that Square needs to get off the Final fantasy band wagon and think up some new shit.... But I will not agree with the whole FF7 being at fault. There are a SHIT ton of other games they don't need to be working on right now. Like (as much a I do want to play it) World of Final Fantasy and some others that it's like "Uh why?"

    that and they are making a DQ11. I am sorry it hasn't been announced YET if it's coming to other places yet, but DQ really isn't that popular of a series.

    And Finally, they are making a whole new game series apparently that hasn't been talked about like at all.... which is horrible marketing.
     

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